Who will win?

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who do you think will win the USA 2008 election?

Republicans
8
42%
Democrats
11
58%
 
Total votes : 19
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Re: Who will win?

Postby Doobie » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:59 am

MetalHead wrote:
Doobie wrote:And, I don't think my conscious would let me vote for the party being represented by a person who is not of Christian faith.


That's one of the dumbest things I've heard in a long while.
What exactly does religion have to do with politics ?


When the issues of today deal with gay marriage, stem cell research and abortion, religion has plenty to do with politics. That's exactly why Obama will win ... too many voters looking at their wallets instead of the moral issues.

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Re: Who will win?

Postby _will_ » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:04 am

I don't honestly believe what you have listed to be particular 'issues'.
But religion does seem to be a funny thing in the USA, it shouldn't be linked with politics IMO

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Re: Who will win?

Postby Doobie » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:19 am

_will_ wrote:I don't honestly believe what you have listed to be particular 'issues'.
But religion does seem to be a funny thing in the USA, it shouldn't be linked with politics IMO


Haven't been watching the debates, heh? Obama stated all three of the issues I listed as part of his platform.

Plus, how can you not link religion to this election? Obama is of the radical faith that's been responsible for 4 terrorist attacks on the U.S. since 1992.

I have enough to answer for on judgment day. I don't need voting for a presidential candidate with no morals on the list, too. :wink:

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Re: Who will win?

Postby _will_ » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:23 am

pfft, well you aren't gonna vote for Obama, so there is no point in arguing with you. I am happy with your decision ;)
Gay marriage / stem cell / abortion, although the morals of the future, won't make any difference if oil issues aren't sorted, food supply, economy isn't sorted.

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Re: Who will win?

Postby JR97 » Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:00 pm

Here's a completely non-partisan question. When was the last time a Presidential candidate's stance on the moral issues.. ie gay marriage, abortion, stem cell, etc. made a difference in terms of legislation, amendments to the constitution, or supreme court interpretation of existing amendments to the constitution?

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Re: Who will win?

Postby MrScary1971 » Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:04 pm

JR97 wrote:
frethead wrote:
JR97 wrote:Doesn't matter who wins because the average American still loses.

I say to you, become more than average! Disconnected is very uninteresting, JR, your statement is untrue in a multitude of ways, and there's plenty to be concerned with.


Trust me. I am very connected, very interested, and very concerned. Just because I don't buy into the farse that is the two party system doesn't mean I don't care and don't do research. The whole liberal/conservative/democratic/republican game is just marketing. Like the song says... "it's all the same.. only the names have changed...".

And I will vote. Just not for either of those two.


I agree with you 100%. The 2 party system is nonsense and some people actually believe these idiots are looking out for our best interests. They have a hidden agenda and they discovered about a decade ago it's better to work together behind the scenes and play up this little charade of 2 party politics. The election is a mere pagaent cleverly disguised as a method of squeezing every dollar out of wallets. To the winner goes the bragging rights and their furniture in the White House. The real losers are the American people and ultimately the rest of the world. I don't endorse Ralph Nader but why is he declined the right to debate? By the people for the people? Hell, any major serious candidate should be allowed to debate on his behalf because he like many of us is eligible to run for president. I say w gey away from these ridiculous labels like liberal, conservative, etc etc and start the "Common Sense Party". Like Dave Mustaine has stated "The System Has Failed".

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Re: Who will win?

Postby bubbles » Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:35 am

_will_ wrote:I don't honestly believe what you have listed to be particular 'issues'.
But religion does seem to be a funny thing in the USA, it shouldn't be linked with politics IMO

They shouldn't be linked but history teaches us that they always become linked, this doesn't surprise me because they are both based on faith IE faith in your god or faith in your party.
Here in Britain at least we have a three party system which allows some form of debate. I noticed that even though the Conservative party had a 40 point lead in the polls Labour have halfed that in the past few weeks. This was all due to Labour showing that they have solutions to British banking problems while the Conservatives have given very few details about the plans they have.

B

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Re: Who will win?

Postby mrmetal » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:09 pm

Well it doesn't matter who you vote for, the economy is going to do what it is going to do. It is like religion, it is all based in faith and belief in the money system and power of the consumer to move the money by buying goods and services. When people don't have faith in the system, it tends to not do well.

Neither Obama nor McCain are finiacial gurus so they aren't going to help anyone's portfolio just by sitting in the oval office.

If you are like me and have 25 years left to work, keep it where it is and ride out the roller coaster.

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Re: Who will win?

Postby gtraddict » Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:18 pm

MetalHead wrote:
Doobie wrote:And, I don't think my conscious would let me vote for the party being represented by a person who is not of Christian faith.


That's one of the dumbest things I've heard in a long while.
What exactly does religion have to do with politics ?


Ask the Taliban that same question and you will see why we don't want to elect a muslim.
Allah bless America, anyone?



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Last edited by gtraddict on Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Who will win?

Postby bubbles » Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:14 am

gtraddict wrote:
MetalHead wrote:
Doobie wrote:And, I don't think my conscious would let me vote for the party being represented by a person who is not of Christian faith.


That's one of the dumbest things I've heard in a long while.
What exactly does religion have to do with politics ?


Ask the Taliban that same question and you will see why we don't want to elect a muslim.
Allah bless America, anyone?


What is the proof of Mr Obama being Islamic and how do you feel that his belief in Islam would effect his Presidency? Islam is not one faith but an umbrella term describing many differing groupings a little like Christianity covers differing groups IE Anglican, Catholic, Baptist etc!. What is his branch of Islam and how do you feel it will that effect his day to day duties?

B

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Re: Who will win?

Postby mrmetal » Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:44 am

bubbles wrote:What is the proof of Mr Obama being Islamic and how do you feel that his belief in Islam would effect his Presidency? Islam is not one faith but an umbrella term describing many differing groupings a little like Christianity covers differing groups IE Anglican, Catholic, Baptist etc!. What is his branch of Islam and how do you feel it will that effect his day to day duties?

B


When JFK was running for office there was some controversy about him being Catholic and whether he would take dictation from the Vatican over his Presidential duties if elected. There was also some discussion about Romney and his Mormon faith because alot of people feel that is a far right belief system. We tend to examine and question Christians about how their spiritual belief system will impact their executive judgement, but I am supposed to give a Muslim a pass because he is a Muslim? Fuck that. Last time I checked, it was Islamic Fascists (i.e. Muslims practicing the religion of peace) bombing markets, blowing up kids and women, and crashing airplanes into business and government complexes, and threating to blow Israel off the map.

There is plenty of proof Obama is Muslim and has been for some time. The fact that he is hiding it and right out lying about his upbringing is what bothers me.

With that said, his religious prefernce doesn't bother me near as much as his Socialist agenda. Alot of people here in the US are not ready to embrace out right socialism - which is what an Obama administration and a left-leaning Congress led by Pelosi would try and implement. The current collapse of the housing market fueled by a wealth re-distribution plan is a great example of what doesn't work.

For that fact alone I don't him as President, but I have realized that he will win - because everyone is looking for a handout these days and the current state of economy. Add to that McCain's utter imcompetence to lead a successful campaign and I don't see how he can't win at this pont. Even if he did, would make any difference? He seems to agree with anything and everyone.

When he wins, the far left - the fringe element that has hijacked the Democratic Party will mistake that for a social mandate and try and implement their socialistic policies - further dragging down the economy, drive up inflation and unemployment. Get ready folks, this ride is just begining.

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Re: Who will win?

Postby JR97 » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:05 am

mrmetal wrote:When people don't have faith in the system, it tends to not do well.



Therein lies part of the problem. People don't even know how the system works to have faith in it in the first place. Because if they did, hopefully people would be smart enough to get rid of the current system which is essentially designed to fail.

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Re: Who will win?

Postby Deansolo » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:32 am

Oh.....Oh say can you see,.. :|
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Re: Who will win?

Postby mrmetal » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:34 am

JR97 wrote:
mrmetal wrote:When people don't have faith in the system, it tends to not do well.



Therein lies part of the problem. People don't even know how the system works to have faith in it in the first place. Because if they did, hopefully people would be smart enough to get rid of the current system which is essentially designed to fail.


Well I don't think it would have failed without help from Washington. It wasn't the brokers or the bankers that wanted to finance houses to people who normally could not qualify.

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Re: Who will win?

Postby JR97 » Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:37 am

mrmetal wrote:
JR97 wrote:
mrmetal wrote:When people don't have faith in the system, it tends to not do well.



Therein lies part of the problem. People don't even know how the system works to have faith in it in the first place. Because if they did, hopefully people would be smart enough to get rid of the current system which is essentially designed to fail.


Well I don't think it would have failed without help from Washington. It wasn't the brokers or the bankers that wanted to finance houses to people who normally could not qualify.


On the contrary. Brokers and bankers make money by lending, creating loans, collecting fees/interest, and packaging up loans for sale. The low-interest rates of the Clinton/Greenspan years led to a windfall of new lending and the beginning of the housing bubble. Money from the sky. Granted, loose lending regulations lead to a lot of bad loans, but it's not like the gov't was holding a gun to anybody's head forcing lenders to take advantage of and even skirt the loose regulations. I mean, who's fault is it if you gorge yourself into oblivion at the all you can eat buffet? Banks and lenders gorged themselves.

But the "system" as a whole is destined to fail because the Federal Reserve System is a credit system. Monetized debt. Meaning the borrower will always be in debt even if the interest rate was barely above 0%. So for the system to work, new credit/new money has to be constantly generated or the thing collapses. At some point, there is no longer the ability even make the minimum payment because inflation will have robbed any/all value of the currency making it nearly impossible for anybody.. be it corporation, family farm, or individual, to financially operate.

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