Politics

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Politics

Postby Fakeblue » Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:10 pm

"Give a man a fish, you'll help him for one day. Teach a man how to find a fish and you will have helped him for his whole life."

What's better for poor people? Be able to buy a medication because it is cheap or be able to buy it with the help of the social security doles?

Should the benefits of a young company be used only for the company or split between the company and the social?

How do you look at this you metal fans ?

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Re: Politics

Postby PoetsandMadmen » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:04 am

Fakeblue wrote:"Give a man a fish, you'll help him for one day. Teach a man how to find a fish and you will have helped him for his whole life."

What's better for poor people? Be able to buy a medication because it is cheap or be able to buy it with the help of the social security doles?

Should the benefits of a young company be used only for the company or split between the company and the social?

How do you look at this you metal fans ?


Fakeblue, I have no problem with our government helping out the poor, but I don't think people should abuse the system's help either. There's people all over the place that use the help as a crutch and an excuse not to better themselves and that's wrong no matter how you look at it.

I absolutly think in no way a company should have to split it's proffits/benefits with the social as you call it. If you work for that company, then the employee is entitled to the benefits, but otherwise you're not.

On another note, I don't feel like the money that a person makes should be taken from he/she and spread out all over the place either. I 200% disagree with that mentality.

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Re: Politics

Postby Fretman » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:43 am

The government should not be responsible for supporting people who refuse to work. The idea of redistributing my wealth to the lower class so that they can sit at home and spew out babies while watching Days Of Our Lives doesn't work for me. Companies are entitled to make their money. Employees do receive money from these companies in the form of a paycheck. If someone wants more than that then let them go open their own company. Any idea promoting socialism is repulsive to me.

My $.02

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Re: Politics

Postby Fakeblue » Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:19 am

Thank you very much to both of you.
Poetsandmadmen, could you please clear out something for me ? Where is Jonhson city TN ? Is that in the states ? I find interesting things in both your opinions.....however I think the best to answer both of you is to describe directly the way I look at it. Here in France we just got through 14 years of socialism. Today a French young company starting from scratch can be tax free for one year, but in the second year, it has to give 53% of its benefits to the government. The result of that is employers don't have a lot of choice : they have to get greedy to survive, and they can't take any single risk in the way they manage their company. No more employing someone just because he needs more experience on his CV, today only the senior get the job.

How does prices go down ? When a company feels comfortable money wise, it is possible to decide to bring the prices down. Sure, that company will make some loss for a while, but when the masses get to know about the lower prices (if the publicity campaign is well done), then that company make a real nice benefit. This is the basic concurrence system. When good benefits are done, when employers start to relax a little, they can get back on thinking about laying a hand to unexperienced youngsters.

Giving money to the people in distress is humanly very good but in some ways it is also like gambling in casino or spending money in a food-store. When you go to a food store, you get goods in return, when you gamble you might just lose your shirt. How can we make sure the people in distress are not going to take advantage of the money they got from the government to make a 'happy wanking living' ?

I can't make up my mind about that question. Despite the crazy French taxes, I still see some young companies, even here in my town getting big. I also saw a friend shutting down his computer company because of the taxes.......perhaps the best politic ever is the one that can be adapted to every one in particular. But the only way for the government to do that is to have a very close look at everyone life, and that would bring us back to fascism.....I don't know....

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Re: Politics

Postby Moose6 » Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:48 am

You have the responsibility of taking care of yourself. Don't look to the government to take care of you, you lazy bum. That's how I feel about it.

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Re: Politics

Postby PoetsandMadmen » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:55 am

Fakeblue wrote:Thank you very much to both of you.
Poetsandmadmen, could you please clear out something for me ? Where is Jonhson city TN ? Is that in the states ? I find interesting things in both your opinions.....however I think the best to answer both of you is to describe directly the way I look at it. Here in France we just got through 14 years of socialism. Today a French young company starting from scratch can be tax free for one year, but in the second year, it has to give 53% of its benefits to the government. The result of that is employers don't have a lot of choice : they have to get greedy to survive, and they can't take any single risk in the way they manage their company. No more employing someone just because he needs more experience on his CV, today only the senior get the job.

How does prices go down ? When a company feels comfortable money wise, it is possible to decide to bring the prices down. Sure, that company will make some loss for a while, but when the masses get to know about the lower prices (if the publicity campaign is well done), then that company make a real nice benefit. This is the basic concurrence system. When good benefits are done, when employers start to relax a little, they can get back on thinking about laying a hand to unexperienced youngsters.

Giving money to the people in distress is humanly very good but in some ways it is also like gambling in casino or spending money in a food-store. When you go to a food store, you get goods in return, when you gamble you might just lose your shirt. How can we make sure the people in distress are not going to take advantage of the money they got from the government to make a 'happy wanking living' ?

I can't make up my mind about that question. Despite the crazy French taxes, I still see some young companies, even here in my town getting big. I also saw a friend shutting down his computer company because of the taxes.......perhaps the best politic ever is the one that can be adapted to every one in particular. But the only way for the government to do that is to have a very close look at everyone life, and that would bring us back to fascism.....I don't know....


Fakeblue, Johnson City is located in the state of Tennessee. Nashville, our state capital, is considered by many to be the "Music City". That's all left up to opinion though.

I believe I'm following what you're saying about new businesses. It sounds to me that your government allows the first year to be tax free, then after that, it's no holds barred with the taxes. After the first year if the company isn't making enough money to cover the high taxes then it's left closing down or shutting its doors.

Here in the states a new business is doing good to "break even" the first few years. To break even means to make enough money to cover your business expenses. Hopefully after a few years, you're making a profit. Profit is money that you have left over after the business owner covers his or her expenses or overhead. In addition to that, our society allows that business owner to make as much money that's possible producing goods, services, or both. Of course there's taxes, but apparently nothing to the extent that your countrymen are having to pay out.

The major difference in what we're talking about is that a company here in the states can make as much money as it wants. From what I understand about what you said is that a French company's profits can plateau after a certain point. The French business owner might be living comfortable, but he or she doesn't have the opportunity to have the most money possible. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I understood your post.

In conclusion, I don't think any one system on earth is the perfect one. Nothing is perfect here. It never has been and never will be. With that said, I do feel like there are stronger government models than others.

I said all of that to say, I don't want this to turn into a harsh debate saying my system is better than your system or vice versa. I don't believe it's turning that way, but I wanted to make sure that you knew I wasn't implying that.

With that said, I do find what you said interesting and I hope you feel the same way.

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Re: Politics

Postby Deansolo » Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:13 pm

You don't want to know my politics. Besides, I don't beleive politics belong in Rock music. Just my opinion.

As a small business owner.......,Poets, Uncle Fretty and Moose,.....I likes yer style! :lol:
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Re: Politics

Postby frethead » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:24 pm

The best damn thing that anyone can do would be to show up at the polls whenever they're open, I think. I could be wrong.
I just found out that the House couldn't come up with enough votes to overturn President Bush's veto of the stem cell research bill. Now, them's some politics right there! Yay!

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Re: Politics

Postby PoetsandMadmen » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:34 am

Deansolo wrote:You don't want to know my politics. Besides, I don't beleive politics belong in Rock music. Just my opinion.

As a small business owner.......,Poets, Uncle Fretty and Moose,.....I likes yer style! :lol:


Yeah, well tell Megadeth and Queensryche that! :lol: I agree with you though. I wish musicians would keep their personal political views out of their music, but at the same time, they have the right to express what they think. I'm glad they're able to eventhough I rarely agree with any of them.

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Re: Politics

Postby Fretman » Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:24 am

frethead wrote:The best damn thing that anyone can do would be to show up at the polls whenever they're open, I think. I could be wrong.
I just found out that the House couldn't come up with enough votes to overturn President Bush's veto of the stem cell research bill. Now, them's some politics right there! Yay!


Getting congress to come up with a 2/3 vote for any issue other than a congressional pay raise is pretty much impossible.

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Re: Politics

Postby Fakeblue » Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:21 am

PoetsandMadmen wrote:
Fakeblue wrote:Thank you very much to both of you.
Poetsandmadmen, could you please clear out something for me ? Where is Jonhson city TN ? Is that in the states ? I find interesting things in both your opinions.....however I think the best to answer both of you is to describe directly the way I look at it. Here in France we just got through 14 years of socialism. Today a French young company starting from scratch can be tax free for one year, but in the second year, it has to give 53% of its benefits to the government. The result of that is employers don't have a lot of choice : they have to get greedy to survive, and they can't take any single risk in the way they manage their company. No more employing someone just because he needs more experience on his CV, today only the senior get the job.

How does prices go down ? When a company feels comfortable money wise, it is possible to decide to bring the prices down. Sure, that company will make some loss for a while, but when the masses get to know about the lower prices (if the publicity campaign is well done), then that company make a real nice benefit. This is the basic concurrence system. When good benefits are done, when employers start to relax a little, they can get back on thinking about laying a hand to unexperienced youngsters.

Giving money to the people in distress is humanly very good but in some ways it is also like gambling in casino or spending money in a food-store. When you go to a food store, you get goods in return, when you gamble you might just lose your shirt. How can we make sure the people in distress are not going to take advantage of the money they got from the government to make a 'happy wanking living' ?

I can't make up my mind about that question. Despite the crazy French taxes, I still see some young companies, even here in my town getting big. I also saw a friend shutting down his computer company because of the taxes.......perhaps the best politic ever is the one that can be adapted to every one in particular. But the only way for the government to do that is to have a very close look at everyone life, and that would bring us back to fascism.....I don't know....


Fakeblue, Johnson City is located in the state of Tennessee. Nashville, our state capital, is considered by many to be the "Music City". That's all left up to opinion though.

I believe I'm following what you're saying about new businesses. It sounds to me that your government allows the first year to be tax free, then after that, it's no holds barred with the taxes. After the first year if the company isn't making enough money to cover the high taxes then it's left closing down or shutting its doors.

Here in the states a new business is doing good to "break even" the first few years. To break even means to make enough money to cover your business expenses. Hopefully after a few years, you're making a profit. Profit is money that you have left over after the business owner covers his or her expenses or overhead. In addition to that, our society allows that business owner to make as much money that's possible producing goods, services, or both. Of course there's taxes, but apparently nothing to the extent that your countrymen are having to pay out.

The major difference in what we're talking about is that a company here in the states can make as much money as it wants. From what I understand about what you said is that a French company's profits can plateau after a certain point. The French business owner might be living comfortable, but he or she doesn't have the opportunity to have the most money possible. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I understood your post.

In conclusion, I don't think any one system on earth is the perfect one. Nothing is perfect here. It never has been and never will be. With that said, I do feel like there are stronger government models than others.

I said all of that to say, I don't want this to turn into a harsh debate saying my system is better than your system or vice versa. I don't believe it's turning that way, but I wanted to make sure that you knew I wasn't implying that.

With that said, I do find what you said interesting and I hope you feel the same way.

Thanks you very much for this great long answer.
My dady went to the states, and he told me good memories about Nashville. He's a blues guy and he says a lot of roots came from that place. I personaly never been to your town, I choosed to go straight to the Rainbow Bar Grill on Sunset Boulevad when I had a chance to come to your country. I though maybe I would meet jake there, since the place is wellknowed for having some celebrities hanging there. Lol what a naive I was.

Back to the original subject, I think my English let me down. You actually can make as much money as you want in France, but the taxes are making it difficult for young companies. We have a oil company called Esso. They made 12 000 000 000 Euros benefits last year.....so I guess you can tell they are doing very well even with the taxes...

The big taxes make employers very suspicious when it comes to employement. They want to make sure they got the best man in order not to waste time and money....I believe if the taxes were lower they would give chances to young workers more.....

But yeah you are right....perfection is not of this earth...It's about having political folks that can take decisions quickly when things are going down instead of letting the country degrading itself.....

Thanks.

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Re: Politics

Postby Fakeblue » Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:23 am

Deansolo wrote:You don't want to know my politics. Besides, I don't beleive politics belong in Rock music. Just my opinion.

As a small business owner.......,Poets, Uncle Fretty and Moose,.....I likes yer style! :lol:
Well, I thought Anarchy in the uk was a good song though...as well as Vulcain's 'Soviet Suprem'...

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Re: Politics

Postby Fakeblue » Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:24 am

Moose6 wrote:You have the responsibility of taking care of yourself. Don't look to the government to take care of you, you lazy bum. That's how I feel about it.
What for handicaped people ?

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Re: Politics

Postby Deansolo » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:49 pm

Fakeblue wrote:
Moose6 wrote:You have the responsibility of taking care of yourself. Don't look to the government to take care of you, you lazy bum. That's how I feel about it.
What for handicaped people ?
Our Social Security system is supposed to take care of handicapped people. Unfortunately there is some abuse of the system and a lot of disabled people don't get help, whereas a lot of people that CLAIM they are handicpped do get help. Very messy subject around my house.
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Re: Politics

Postby frethead » Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:49 pm

Is that Esso Oil? In France??? Hmmm, they might've moved out there sometime since the sixties ( or so), I s'pose. Because, my grandfather built and owned a number of Esso Oil service stations during the nineteen-fifties and sixties in Ormond Beach and Daytona Beach! As a matter-of-fact, that guy who played Lurch in The Addams Family worked at one of them before heading to Hollywood. Trippy.

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