Jake E Lee as composer

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Jake E Lee as composer

Postby Ninevah123 » Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:33 am

We talk alot about Jake the astonishing guitar talent and rightly so,but we dont talk enough about his ability to compose brilliant compositions/songs.I was struck by the brilliance of his songs on the Ultimate Sin album {which Jake wrote along with Phil while Ozzy was bombed out of his skull on booze and drugs}but his work with his Badlands buddies was beyond belief.

Not only was this man someone who's guitar abilities was amongst the greatest in the world but his compositional strength was undeniably amongst the best as well.Whats the use in being able to play brilliantly if you cant understand how to actually write quality original works?Jake and Badlands wrote fabulous songs and the more I have listened to them over the course of the past 18 years I realise how much true quality they have.Nobody returns to an album hundreds of times over the course of two decades if there is nothing of quality to take you there.Its the songs.How they were written,the blues,the heaviness,the soul.Not to mention the lyrical quality of what the songs were about because that also draws you back and given that Ray has passed his lyrics matter so much more because it lets you drift back to his thoughts and passions.

I have numerous live Badlands recordings on CD I have purchased from the good man that runs this web site and when you hear these songs live they become astonishing to the point you can barely believe how good they are.Maybe the chemistry in Badlands was so good that these songs came easy to what was obviously very talented and proffesional people,but when you think that the first song they wrote was 'The Last Time' and from there they wrote numerous equally exceptional songs then Jake and Greg should know we dont just appreciate their great playing.....its also so over 30 classic blues/rock that we continue to love and will always want to hear.To Jake and Greg,I say this.1988-1992 might be a long time ago but people think nothing of reffering back 35 years to Zepllin's glory days and to me the passing of time will never diminish what Badlands has given me.

My nephew is 12 and has all of the Badlands albums....so new generations will discover these fabulous works all the time, not just us older guys.

Sorry for the long post.

Best wishes to the Badlands army.

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Re: Jake E Lee as composer

Postby Fakeblue » Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:07 am

I'm part of the people who never understood Badlands.
When I think of Jake's composing talent, it's songs like never (I'm talking about 'The Ultimate Sin' fifth song - not the third [never know why]). And Waiting for Darkness (BATM 8th song). The solo in Never is one the most intense lead in rock to me. I think a solo should not just be technica of course, that's a criteria everybody will agree with, but a solo should also find a perfect balance with the song, I mean be kind of a continuation of the song so even kids won't frown when they hear it.

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Re: Jake E Lee as composer

Postby seasons » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:13 am

Excellent post Ninevah123! All very well put. I echo your sentiments completely! Great to see people still being that moved by Badlands. No one (general public wise) knows about them or Ray and everyone should. I am doing my part to make sure this changes in the future.

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Re: Jake E Lee as composer

Postby MetalHead » Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:45 am

This is what Dinosaurrockguitar.com has to say in this matter ...

[quote=Dinosaurrockguitar.com]Songwriting. Suffice it to say he wasn't Randy Rhoads
or even Zakk Wylde in the songwriting department with Ozzy.
For discussion, let's focus on Badlands because it was Jake's
primary writing vehicle, and because he was free to write what he wanted.
Badlands featured a fantastic guitarist, a fantastic singer, and a great
rhythm section, but for some reason, the songwriting was never quite equal
to the sum of the parts. I know some people love Badlands, and that's fine.
But something about them just doesn't connect with me. I never enjoyed
Badlands as much as I thought I should have, given the talent of Lee and Gillen.[/quote]

Jakes full alchemy profile can be found here !
"Spend less time chasing tones and more time just playing music." - Marty Friedman

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Re: Jake E Lee as composer

Postby skezza » Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:53 am

I think Never Know Why is a great song. i think the solo at the end of that (especially live) is particularly fantastic. Both Bark at the Moon and Ultimate Sin were great albums and i have to say, id probably listen to them over badlands, not because i dont like badlands, but i found some of Jakes stuff on those two albums were really memorable
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Re: Jake E Lee as composer

Postby bubbles » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:33 am

skezza wrote:I think Never Know Why is a great song. i think the solo at the end of that (especially live) is particularly fantastic. Both Bark at the Moon and Ultimate Sin were great albums and i have to say, id probably listen to them over badlands, not because i dont like badlands, but i found some of Jakes stuff on those two albums were really memorable


I think that overall 'Ultimate' as more good songs than 'Bark'.

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Re: Jake E Lee as composer

Postby bubbles » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:33 am

skezza wrote:I think Never Know Why is a great song. i think the solo at the end of that (especially live) is particularly fantastic. Both Bark at the Moon and Ultimate Sin were great albums and i have to say, id probably listen to them over badlands, not because i dont like badlands, but i found some of Jakes stuff on those two albums were really memorable

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Re: Jake E Lee as composer

Postby stratattack » Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:41 pm

I think Exithouse says it all.
The artist formally known as Brawler

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Re: Jake E Lee as composer

Postby harddriver » Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:30 am

bubbles wrote:
skezza wrote:I think Never Know Why is a great song. i think the solo at the end of that (especially live) is particularly fantastic. Both Bark at the Moon and Ultimate Sin were great albums and i have to say, id probably listen to them over badlands, not because i dont like badlands, but i found some of Jakes stuff on those two albums were really memorable


I think that overall 'Ultimate' as more good songs than 'Bark'.
The Ultimate Sin is by far a better album than Bark at the Moon and in my opinion it is the best Ozzy album as well. While No More Tears was good it was way to soft and lyrically it sucked.
Ozzy's Best Shit IMO
1. The Ultimate Sin
2. No rest for the wicked
3. Diary of a Madman
4. No More tears
5. Tribute ( Randy slayed on that muther )

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Re: Jake E Lee as composer

Postby skezza » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:26 am

harddriver wrote:
bubbles wrote:
skezza wrote:I think Never Know Why is a great song. i think the solo at the end of that (especially live) is particularly fantastic. Both Bark at the Moon and Ultimate Sin were great albums and i have to say, id probably listen to them over badlands, not because i dont like badlands, but i found some of Jakes stuff on those two albums were really memorable


I think that overall 'Ultimate' as more good songs than 'Bark'.
The Ultimate Sin is by far a better album than Bark at the Moon and in my opinion it is the best Ozzy album as well. While No More Tears was good it was way to soft and lyrically it sucked.
Ozzy's Best Shit IMO
1. The Ultimate Sin
2. No rest for the wicked
3. Diary of a Madman
4. No More tears
5. Tribute ( Randy slayed on that muther )
hey harddriver,
bit disappointed you didnt include blizzard in that, but i know that production wasnt great etc but the music was great in my opinion :). I think Ultimate Sin was just a top notch album, everything on it was done well and people who criticize it are usually those trying to take digs at ozzy and have not listened to it. In my opinion it was the last great Ozzy album, I feel with exception to No More Tears, each album got worse and worse from then on.

I don't think id rate them however, I just know I'd listen to any of the four with Randy or Jake and enjoy them equally :)
WWW.ULTIMATERHOADS.COM - Randy Rhoads Website!

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Re: Jake E Lee as composer

Postby mrmetal » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:08 pm

I don't like to bash on songwriting because I know how hard it is to do. Especially when the singer, bassist, and whoever else in the band is looking at you when you decide to quit playing covers and write for yourself - and they have no ideas, no riffs, no lyrics, etc.

Like the article above that MetalHead posted stated in its little op-ed, I enjoyed Badlands, but not as much as BATM and TUS. I know Daisley had a lot of influence on Ozzy's songs in the early years, so it is hard to say who wrote what and all. The solos were brilliant no doubt about that. And BATM was alot better than TUS.

When I listen to Badlands, I often wonder what Jake and Gillian were actually trying to do. Bluesy hard rock I guess is the standard answer; but they didn't seem quite get there and didn't seem to be as good at as Tesla for example.

I wonder how well this band actually got along. Yes, they sounded great, played some cool songs, and had an incredible amount of talent. But it just seems like they just couldn't quite get to the pinnacle of a great rock band and they sure fell apart fast.

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Re: Jake E Lee as composer

Postby mrmetal » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:13 pm

skezza wrote: hey harddriver,
bit disappointed you didnt include blizzard in that


harddriver has unique tastes. He is special. :D

I agree with you skeeza. Blizzard of Ozz should top any list of Ozzy's greatest albums and songwriting. Only to be followed by Dairy of a Madman, Bark at the Moon, and The Ulitmate Sin.

Actually I should rephrase that - Bob Daisley's songwriting.

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Re: Jake E Lee as composer

Postby Shadow » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:45 pm

Jake E. Lee guitar roots are deeply embedded in the Bayou Blues which has alot of painful complex qualities to it and since Ozzy Osbourne is more of an Hard Rocker person (which by the way Rock derives from the Blues not the other way around) he couldn't with all due respects comprehend Jake's complex moods of writting/composing songs. All the premiere Guitarists Randy Rhoads, Jake E. Lee and Zakk Wylde that contributed in the legendary Ozzy Osbourne band were & are masters at what they so passionately love/playing with so great emotions from their guitars. Hhhhmmm, I wonder did any of them know how to "slide guitar" (I need this question to be answer...'thank you in advance) ...'Anyway, much respects Jake E. Lee is a very complex & compassionate musician that strange groove vibes is much to be treasured..'I like his clever imputs not only in OZZY band but also his own band BADLANDS & his works with Wicked Alliance and his Solo Projects. Peace & much respects!

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Re: Jake E Lee as composer

Postby mrmetal » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:48 am

Hi Shadow.

To answer your question about slide guitar; Randy used a slide on the solo in "No Bone Movies" and Zakk uses a slide on several songs.

If memory serves me right, there was a video floating around of Jake looking very SRV-insh, sporting a beaver hat (like the one SRV and Van Zant used to wear) playing some pretty cool slide.

Maybe one of the many experts on here could be more specific about the Jake vid.

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Re: Jake E Lee as composer

Postby skezza » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:37 pm

Cant remember the exact one your on about mrmetal, but i think ive seen it to. If i remember hes playing his whitey charvel and hes just doing a bit of simple slow hand slide but its been a long time since i have seen it. As for Randy, I used to, and still may if i look around enough have a video of Randy playing slide with quiet riot over one of their songs as the solo and he was no mugg at it by any means. he was always talented with most elements of guitar, as is Jake.
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