it continues

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it continues

Postby Doobie » Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:20 am

And it continues …

Okay, I’ve had Mindcrime II for a few days now. Been listening to it through headphones at work and cranked it up a couple of times on the towers at home. I’m not going to critique every song or the storyline. After a few spins, here’s my take.

The obvious: DeGarmo’s departure. Not only in the guitar playing but, the backing vocals, as well. Not that the playing is bad (in fact, most of it is very good) … DeGarmo’s sound was just very distinguishable to me. There are numerous “dueling guitar” parts as I always associate with the Ryche. There’s a lot of decent guitar solos on here, too.

Another obvious: there will never be another Mindcrime, so just get that out of your head before you spin this one. I did just that and was surprised to find that, just like the first one, the more you listen to it the more it grows on you. It caught my interest from the get-go and continues to keep it.

“Mary” talk-sings well. I don’t think she does particularly well when actually sing-singing unless she’s singing at the top-of-her-lungs. I noticed this particular flub at their last concert, too. She’s not horrid – I’m just not fond of her sound. However, there are times singing with Tate, she sounds decent.

I don’t foresee myself learning every word to every song this time. There’s a lot more of them - very wordy and lyrical. However, well done in the lyric department.

My fave segment of this CD is the stretch of songs 4, 5, & 6 – One Foot In Hell, Hostage, The Hands. All are very well written and performed.
Hostage being the standout for me – starts decent and gets harder. Sounds like old school (very early 80’s) Ryche to me. Great lyrics and overall “listenability”. I’m pretty sure this one is going to end up being my fave.
I didn’t start feeling the typical Mindcrime emotion in Tate’s voice until track 8 – Signs Say So. But, then again, the storyline doesn’t really call for it too much before then. When called for, of course, Tate delivers.
The Chase – featuring RJD as X – good fit for him musically except for the Dio/Tate combo. Didn’t care for their combined vocal sound.
If I Could Change It All – here Tate shines vocally and it’s a good fit. This one sounds very “Mindcrimish”.
An Intentional Confrontation – this is a great song which features Tate and Mary partaking in a conversation that is sung. Again, sounds very “Mindcrimish”.
Fear City Slide is decent and again has undertones of old school Ryche.
All The Promises – slow song – Tate’s vocals at their best.

Overall, I think this CD is an excellent effort for Mindcrime’s follow-up. Very well written and performed. Anyone that hates it apparently can't let go of the first one.

Oh, by the way, I picked up a second copy of the first one because I have to rummage through my daughters room and car everytime I want to hear it. This edition is remastered and has two additional live tracks tacked on at the end. The two additional tracks are just live repeats of The Mission and Empty Room. Something interesting about the booklet though ... it has the story of how Tate came up with the idea (based on some actual people) and how he struggled with his bandmates (DeGarmo finally caved - thank God!) and company execs to get it recorded.

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Re: it continues

Postby PoetsandMadmen » Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:59 am

Your take is a little more forgiving than mine, but I respect it. As for the comment, "if you hate OMCII, then you can't let go of the first one," is totally unfair. That pisses me off when people say that!

First off, Geoff is marketing on the first one, but basically has put out a mundane effort. Apparently, the band hasn't let go of the first one, due to the current album. Why should I or anyone else let go of the first one, the band hasn't?

Secondly, I still feel that the band is capable of giving us an album at least as good as Empire, but out right refuses! They want to sound modern, look modern, and that's exactly what they continue to do. They continue to put out mundane, flat, and average music.

Bottom line is, some people allow bands like Queensryche to fool them into thinking that their junk is actually good, but it isn't. At the same time there's tons of good metal out there, but people are just like Geoff Tate, because they're too darned hard headed/close minded to give it a chance!

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Re: it continues

Postby Fretman » Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:37 pm

Wow...that bad? I'll admit I haven't bought it yet, but the song they play on XM, "I'm American", ain't that good. I would venture to say that not many of us expected this record to be anywhere near as good as MCI based on their last few efforts. Maybe people would like it more if it was called "Insert Title Here" instead of MCII. When you call it MCII then the expectations are automatically raised to a level that can't be acheived. Anyway...I haven't heard but one song so I'll reserve judgement for after I get a listen.

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Re: it continues

Postby excitable87 » Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:58 pm

I've yet to try out this cd 'cause of what Poets told me, and I agree that it's totally fair to compare it to the first one cause, for God's sake, it's called OMC Part 2 isn't it? I read in an interview that they went out of their way to make the drums and other instruments sound similar to the first one. So yeah, whether it's good or not, there trying to sell albums based on the first Mindcrime.

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Re: it continues

Postby Doobie » Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:03 pm

No, it's "not that bad". Poets is angered because it doesn't sound just like the first one. Why do people expect it should? And, why would anyone expect the band to let go of the first one? They have an ending to the story - by all means, tell it. Not everyone has to like it. It's 18 yrs. since the first release - it's going to be different considering the time span and change in musicians. A lot of those who are dissing it probably gave it a solo spin to begin with. pfffft. Like all others, it deserves more than one spin before judging ...

"I'm American" is not the best song, Fret. In fact, I didn't find it worthy of a mention in my first post. I see why it's the one picked for airtime, though - it's pretty much the lead-out.

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Re: it continues

Postby Doobie » Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:09 pm

excitable87 wrote:I've yet to try out this cd 'cause of what Poets told me, and I agree that it's totally fair to compare it to the first one cause, for God's sake, it's called OMC Part 2 isn't it? I read in an interview that they went out of their way to make the drums and other instruments sound similar to the first one. So yeah, whether it's good or not, there trying to sell albums based on the first Mindcrime.


You're missing out on the advice of another. It wouldn't do you any good to listen to it with that attitude. You're mind is already made up, I can tell. :roll:

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Re: it continues

Postby excitable87 » Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:10 pm

Doobie wrote:No, it's "not that bad". Poets is angered because it doesn't sound just like the first one. Why do people expect it should? And, why would anyone expect the band to let go of the first one? They have an ending to the story - by all means, tell it. Not everyone has to like it. It's 18 yrs. since the first release - it's going to be different considering the time span and change in musicians. A lot of those who are dissing it probably gave it a solo spin to begin with. pfffft. Like all others, it deserves more than one spin before judging ...

"I'm American" is not the best song, Fret. In fact, I didn't find it worthy of a mention in my first post. I see why it's the one picked for airtime, though - it's pretty much the lead-out.


Why shouldn't he be angered? If they came out and said "OK it's called this but don't expect it to sound like the first one" then that's one thing, but as I said before they TRIED to make it sound like the first one, but from what I heard they failed big time. I think that's why so many people are upset, but hey, just my opinion.

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Re: it continues

Postby mrmetal » Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:27 pm

I like the album. I think it was a decent effort by the band. I have to agree with Doobie, most people that are upset are slamming based on "well, it isn't the original..." well yeah...that was a long time ago.

Hell, I don't look the same I did 20 years ago either. :D And Geoff can't sing like he could 20 years ago. Age does tend to slow you down and limit your physical abilities.

I don't think Madman fits in that category though.... :wink: I think it may not be power metal enough for him (correct me if I am wrong, I can take it. :D)

The album still has some solid song writing and it gets spun in the CD player occasionally. I say occasionally because Evergrey's new album is just freaking smoking, so that gets most of the spin time these days.

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Re: it continues

Postby excitable87 » Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:48 pm

Good grief, enough with the eye rolling :roll: lol, I'm just saying what do you expect people to think? If Def Leppard came out with a cd that they tried to imitate the sound of Pyromania, well that's what people expect it to sound like... bottom line (as I've said before) a good song is a good song, Poets knows my taste when it comes to what I like and don't like, and I'm just going by what he said. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether you care for it or not.

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Re: it continues

Postby SHREDDER1 » Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:02 pm

To poetsandmadmen.

Your comment`s are pretty harsh.It took me 10 listen`s to get me going
on that album.Straight out opinion is that it`s good...not great but,good.
The lyrics are music are complex.The average listener cannot process
the musical information on either of those albums.Are they mundane,
flat,or average?....or the new album?...I`d say NO.

I use to play alot for progressive rock and metal many years ago.I
appreciate the effort put into the album.It was probably a nightmare
putting it together.Did we forget they influenced the whole progressive
metal scene?Let`s have a little respect for for these gentlemen.

I respect your opinion P&M and everybody else`s...thought i should
speak up.

Shredder

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Re: it continues

Postby Doobie » Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:04 pm

Excitable - this was meant for those interested and apparently you aren't. You haven't even heard it so I don't see why you're carrying on so. Come back when you can actually join the conversation and not bash something you haven't even listened to. *insert more eye rolling here if you will* As for me, I tend not to reply to threads I know nothing about.

If Queensryche had come out with back-to-back Mindcrime CD's nobody would have bought it. I like the concept of bringing it back after so long and congratulate them on the fact they are still doing something. How many other 80's bands are? How refreshing!!

mrmetal - do you have a fave on II ?? If so, which one?

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Re: it continues

Postby Olaf » Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:28 pm

Give am Hell Poets. I agree with you my man.........................
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Re: it continues

Postby mrmetal » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:21 am

Doobie wrote: *insert more eye rolling here if you will*


I will if you won't :roll:

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Re: it continues

Postby excitable87 » Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:37 pm

Doobie wrote:Excitable - this was meant for those interested and apparently you aren't. You haven't even heard it so I don't see why you're carrying on so. Come back when you can actually join the conversation and not bash something you haven't even listened to. *insert more eye rolling here if you will* As for me, I tend not to reply to threads I know nothing about.

If Queensryche had come out with back-to-back Mindcrime CD's nobody would have bought it. I like the concept of bringing it back after so long and congratulate them on the fact they are still doing something. How many other 80's bands are? How refreshing!!

mrmetal - do you have a fave on II ?? If so, which one?


Lol, good for you, I was just giving my opinion, you were complaining that people were trying to compare the two, I was just saying why they were, I wasn't bashing anything, last time I checked you're the one insulting, but that's cool, some people are just like that. :wink:

And here's an eye roll for anyone who doesn't like me or what I said. :roll:

:lol:

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Re: it continues

Postby excitable87 » Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:38 pm

mrmetal wrote:
Doobie wrote: *insert more eye rolling here if you will*


I will if you won't :roll:


Here's another... :roll:

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